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Martijnus
Joined: 29 Dec 2006
Posts: 2019
Location: Netherlands
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 Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:52 am Post subject: Behold, my intake manifold! |
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Because my manifold is almost finished, the latest pics will be shown here.
Homebuilt manifold with individual runners and GSXR1000 k2 throttlebodies.
There's still a little edge from TB to runner, but the turbulence created there will have a positive effect on the mixture because it's just behind the injector. I think the turbulence will mix the fuel better with the air, but that theory is based on my subjective speculations 
When all the TB's are mounted on the runners, I'll fix the tb's togheter, link the valve system together and start on the fuelrail, which will be flexible hose instead of a fixed metal rail.
expansion (if any) doesn't matter, the pressure will still be regulated by the pressure regulator and I'm thinking of using hydraulic lines which will not expand.
I'm busy finding out where to buy K&N filters... I'll find them... will be these:
Clickieclickie
will be updated soon  head modifications will come at a later time, want to buy the MS first before modding other things. If it runs I'm fine with it, smoothening out can be done later (planning to mount it on my current cyl. head first, and then swap it with my modded head)
_________________
"Rule: Turbo's make torque, and torque makes fun." (C. Bell)
924 "50-jahre", 1981.
MSII/extra, LPG, ITB's, 5lug.
To be turbo'ed in a while.
Killed her at the Nurburgring, Porscheless at the moment  |
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morghen
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 9095
Location: Romania
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Martijnus
Joined: 29 Dec 2006
Posts: 2019
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:04 am Post subject: |
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Thanks!
I've sent an email to the official K&N distributor 20km's from here. I think they can supply me.
What have you paid for your filters (if I may ask  )... are they similar to the ones I'm buying?
_________________
"Rule: Turbo's make torque, and torque makes fun." (C. Bell)
924 "50-jahre", 1981.
MSII/extra, LPG, ITB's, 5lug.
To be turbo'ed in a while.
Killed her at the Nurburgring, Porscheless at the moment |
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Peter_in_AU
Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 2743
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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mmmmm yummy.
They look great. Can't wait to see the final product on the car.
_________________
1979 924 (Gone to a better place)
1974 Lotus 7 S4 "Big Valve" Twin-cam (waiting)
1982 924 (As featured on Wikipedia)
Learn to love your multimeter and may the search be with you |
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Joes924Racer
Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 11964
Location: Oregon, Denver Colorado native!
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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awesome job.
_________________
1979 porsche 924 Na
1980 porsche Turbo 931GT Replica
Have u ever driven a turbo. |
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endwrench
Joined: 07 Dec 2002
Posts: 1631
Location: Victor, Montana
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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Looks great! Have you actually tried mounting this to a head yet? I am interested if you can use the stock style stud and nut set-up or will you need to switch to an allen hed bolt? Doesn't look like you will have much room for a socket or wrench.
Todd
_________________
'79 924NA. Rebuilt 9.5:1, MSDS header, Mega Squirt Injection, MJLJ-EDIS Ignition, 1.6L Whipple Charger and Intercooler, 10lbs Boost, 944 Trans, Custom HD Clutch.
"simsport" said....superchargers are better than turbos its official!.... |
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Qky
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 44
Location: Serbija
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| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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Good one!
One suggestion.
I'll finish my intake manifold (& EFI project soon), "without" classic butterfly (like on BMW M5).
If u'r interested in it, I'll send u drawings and pics in a few days
Difference, on classic butterfly u have twirl and tighteness in butterfly area, with this u exceed all of them!
For rail, I have gotten one from some old man on car junk-yard.
It fit perfect on my 924 n/a!!!!
Regulator presure is incidental to!
He nave batch of them!!!! |
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Martijnus
Joined: 29 Dec 2006
Posts: 2019
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Qky wrote: | Good one!
One suggestion.
I'll finish my intake manifold (& EFI project soon), "without" classic butterfly (like on BMW M5).
If u'r interested in it, I'll send u drawings and pics in a few days
Difference, on classic butterfly u have twirl and tighteness in butterfly area, with this u exceed all of them!
For rail, I have gotten one from some old man on car junk-yard.
It fit perfect on my 924 n/a!!!!
Regulator presure is incidental to!
He nave batch of them!!!! |
I'd like to see some pics, because I don't actually know what a non-classic butterfly is
| endwrench wrote: | Looks great! Have you actually tried mounting this to a head yet? I am interested if you can use the stock style stud and nut set-up or will you need to switch to an allen hed bolt? Doesn't look like you will have much room for a socket or wrench.
Todd |
I've built the flange by making a 2D drawing in solidworks and printing it out. Cutting out the holes and laying it over the original manifold gasket.
This way I could adjust the drawing until it was perfect. After that I've layed the final cutout sheet over the flange and started drilling. This way, I knew for sure that it would fit.
You're right with the allen bolts. I saw it coming, so I've taken out all the studs and bought allen bolts.
I've drilled the bolt holes first, and have mounted the flange on my head so I'm sure it fits.
After that I made the large holes for the runners. It's almost plug&play
Yesterday I've tried to link the throttle valves together... didn't want to weld, so I'm making some brackets which will fit over the original stuff... it's a lot of work to do it nice but heck... already spent too much time on it
I'm also buying other filters... I'll buy the RC-0984. They are applied on several motorcycles, so they're easy to obtain.
I didn't know the filters were so expensive! The cheapest I can find are on ebay, will cost me 177 eur (200+ dollar) for a set of 4, including shipping.
That's almost as much as I've paid for my throttlebodies & injectors!
I can buy a cheaper brand... but I won't.
The RC0984 set is oval and tapered... the first set was not oval but round... oval gives a larger surface which means the maximum air volume is higher, and the filters probably will have a longer cleaning interval.
Filters will be one of the last things I'll buy because of the price... the MS computer and LC1 sensor have a higher priority.
Soon pics of all 4 TB's mounted on the runners.... looks fast already!
_________________
"Rule: Turbo's make torque, and torque makes fun." (C. Bell)
924 "50-jahre", 1981.
MSII/extra, LPG, ITB's, 5lug.
To be turbo'ed in a while.
Killed her at the Nurburgring, Porscheless at the moment |
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Qky
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 44
Location: Serbija
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| Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I'd like to see some pics, because I don't actually know what a non-classic butterfly is |
OK!
I see that! 
I do not know how to define u what non classic batterfly is!
In my club we discern them on 2 category: twisters & sliders
You'r making intake manifold with 4 batterflys (twister kind)
good side:
- ease to make
- plentiful of parts (if u needed)
bad side:
- twirl
- batterfly shaft detract intake intersection
- engage engine bay
Sliders
- no twirl
- do not detract intake intersection
- dimension : slim
bad side:
- u need to crunch a head to construct it to work properly  |
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462avi
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 149
Location: Hollister, California
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| Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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That looks great. I was thinking it would be good on a 931 with efi. Ultimately I plan on doing this to my car. I wonder what lengthening the runners would do to increase low end torque. Beautiful work though, did you use a heliarc? Most people shy away from stainless. That looks like what you used; good choice for heat resistance. Do you happen to know what type you used?
Geoff
_________________
2005 C230K
2002 grand cherokee with 4.7L |
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Martijnus
Joined: 29 Dec 2006
Posts: 2019
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| 462avi wrote: | That looks great. I was thinking it would be good on a 931 with efi. Ultimately I plan on doing this to my car. I wonder what lengthening the runners would do to increase low end torque. Beautiful work though, did you use a heliarc? Most people shy away from stainless. That looks like what you used; good choice for heat resistance. Do you happen to know what type you used?
Geoff |
Ehh... I seriously have no idea what type of stainless steel it is. I went to a company which works with all sorts of steel and asked for some stainless steel... They didn't have much time so I was allowed to look in a rack full of pipes and stuff... I found a piece of 50cm which fitted my TB perfectly. Bought it for €10 (less than $15) and the flange was obtained by getting it out of the trash over there (no rust, heavy...must be stainless steel ).
The holes were drilled... I don't have fancy equipment.. drilled with a 4mm drill in a circle... with a column drill (That's what babelfish translated ) and for the finishing I used a metal grater (?) or file..what's it called... in the drill.
Thats why it took me sooooo much time.
Tagged it with my mini-mig junkyard welder and brought it to a relative of a colleque who welded it professionaly for a pack of cigarettes
QKY:
Sliders... you mean like what's in most of the carburators on motorcycles? That, and butterflies are the only ways to control throttle known to me.
something like this? (number 3) except for the butterflyvalve (number 10).
Couldn't find a cutaway pic from a slide-only carburator.
Anyway, I'm not building a high performance engine... I wanted to get rid of the mechanical injecection system (expensive stuff and mpg isn't that good when optimised). If I was modding that, why not build a intakesystem which improves the sound and the performance of the engine (hopefully )
I've actually thought about building a variable runner lenght. Long runners at low rpm, short runners at high rpm. Telescopic style could do the trick but will not be very efficient and is quite hard to build without leakage. Also, the MS computer wouldn't be able to control that I think, so that plan went in the trash... and 4 weeks later I read in some magazine that Yamaha applied a variable intake length system on their new YZF R1  they stole my idea
_________________
"Rule: Turbo's make torque, and torque makes fun." (C. Bell)
924 "50-jahre", 1981.
MSII/extra, LPG, ITB's, 5lug.
To be turbo'ed in a while.
Killed her at the Nurburgring, Porscheless at the moment |
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Qky
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 44
Location: Serbija
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| Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:43 am Post subject: |
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Something like that, but without butterfly.
I'll post a pics in few days (when it's over)
My design is simple & cheap one ("stick, ingot & spring" ti must to work)!
2 plastic plates (with drilled intake posts) & aluminium plate between (batterfly function)! |
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simsport
Joined: 06 Nov 2002
Posts: 573
Location: UK Warrington
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| Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:16 am Post subject: Roller |
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The least restrictive throttle is a roller throttle in which you have two cylinders which roll in and out.
I think lumenition made them once. They are more complex than the good old butterfly design, and I guess a lot more money too.
Cheers
Simon
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Blown is always best! |
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Martijnus
Joined: 29 Dec 2006
Posts: 2019
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:54 am Post subject: |
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As promised some new pics;
overview
overview
Prototype of connection between the valves...
It will be like this, but the left side will be slightly longer so I can put a m3 bolt through the outer plates (this way I don't have to drill a hole in the original stuff).
Should work nicely without any warping and is as adjustable as original.
what the air sees before it gets burned 
Overview again...
I don't have much time to work on it... this week school takes a lot of my time (studying artificial intelligence) but it'll work some day
_________________
"Rule: Turbo's make torque, and torque makes fun." (C. Bell)
924 "50-jahre", 1981.
MSII/extra, LPG, ITB's, 5lug.
To be turbo'ed in a while.
Killed her at the Nurburgring, Porscheless at the moment |
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Martijnus
Joined: 29 Dec 2006
Posts: 2019
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:45 am Post subject: |
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Tonight I've finished the linkage between the valves.
Just a simple sandwich design, works perfectly and doesn't damage the original throttlebody stuff.
Only thing that's a little bummer is that I've lost 2 of 3 springs which control the valves (the "plate" is put between a adjusting screw and a spring) ...
It's not a real problem because I probably can find something that looks like it... as long as they're all the same and don't differ that much from the stock stuff it's just as good (if the spings can't be compressed enough my adjusting range will be smaller, if the springs are less strong the transfer of power will not be reliable to the other valves)..
piccie time
There has to be a little spring where the gap above the plate is...
_________________
"Rule: Turbo's make torque, and torque makes fun." (C. Bell)
924 "50-jahre", 1981.
MSII/extra, LPG, ITB's, 5lug.
To be turbo'ed in a while.
Killed her at the Nurburgring, Porscheless at the moment |
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